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:	post by PatMeebles at 2006-03-23 14:57:19

ShadowSD said:

I wouldn't have, no. I have always felt that supporting an aggressor in any conflict villifies us and thus strengthens our enemies, which can lead to us being attacked in the future, and it also gives (or can be perceived as giving) moral justification to a first strike mentality, which can also lead to us being attacked in the future.

Well, that's your argument. Like I said, I don't really think we're disagreeing on what cause support for Saddam in the 80's, or whether it was bad policy. I was jsut making a point about hindsight in the last post.

ShadowSD said:

We may not like it, but America as a superpower sets the standard for the rest of the world in ways we don't even realize, and this is doubly true after the fall of the USSR and our emergence as the sole superpower. We elect a foreign policy hardliner (Bush), and yet we are surprised when other countries do the same (Iranians electing Ahmedinejad / Palestinians electing HAMAS).

Bush ran as an isolationist in 2000. 9/11 obviously changed that. But, we also don't want to wipe Isreal off the map (like Iran), or Iraq. You may disagree with why we're there, but even if it was for oil, we went in to foster a democratic and free Iraq that would (hopefully) be friendly to the US, thus (if you're stuck on the oil argument), would make oil trading a lot easier.

I guess your point would be demonstrated if a kid saw his dad smoking pot, then went ahead with shooting up black tar heroin and smoking crack at the same time, and when his dad caught him he would say "What?! You do it too!!!"

ShadowSD said:

Ultimately, America sets the standard nowadays, and everytime we punch the mirror for mimicking us, we can't change the reflection; we only end up with shards of glass in our hands.

Cleverly put, and I can agree, but under different circumstances (as stated above). When a debate about NSA was happening, a Democrat said "I thought Republicans wanted a smaller government. I guess they made it small enough to fit in our phones." You guys are coming up with some catchy phrases; keep it up.

ShadowSD said:

America was supporting Islamofascists with Al-Qaeda ties in Saudia Arabia as late as... well we still are, actually. Such tangential connections prove nothing (unless you want to entertain the idea that the US is backing Al Qaeda because we support Saudia Arabia).

OBL wants to overthrow the Saudis. Islamists, yes. Al Qaeda, no. Oil country that we're stuck having to deal with, hell yes.

ShadowSD said:

Al-Qaeda was also in the US until 9/11. Why do you not even consider using that evidence to suggest that the US was involved in 9/11? Because it fails the common sense test.

Well, Al Qaeda was in the US because it wanted to attack us. Al Qaeda was in Iraq training in places like Salman Pak (a government-run training ground with 747's used in hijacking lessons) and recruiting fighters to fight in Afghanistan

ShadowSD said:

That's interesting, in this thread there has been a lot said about the stigma of third world countries in our news media, and how only the negative stuff seeps through (I gave a pretty thorough example of Iran earlier). Such uniform negativity being constantly reinforced in the news media about other countries and cultures would itself result in an implicit suggestion of American superiority, don't you think?

Not if we're blamed for the world's problem, like we are for sectarian violence (I didn't realize that the mere presence of US troops would cause Shiites and Sunnis to hate each other becasue of their race.)

Alright, I'm off to my guitar player's high school to see his senior recital.

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